What Service-Minded Public Safety Officers Look Like

This episode of Beyond the Bandaids is brought to you by Project PACT (Police And Community Together).

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Connect with the co-hosts of Beyond the Bandaids:

Chief Mike Butler on LinkedIn
Dr. Carol Engel-Enright on LinkedIn
Kristin Daley on LinkedIn

The following three organizations—each committed to enhancing community well-being and policing integrity—joined forces to create Project PACT.

Law Enforcement Action Partnership (LEAP)
New Blue
The School of Statesmanship, Stewardship & Service (SOSSAS)

Beyond the Bandaids is dedicated to exploring how police officers, public safety professionals, community leaders, and community members can reconnect with their sense of purpose and inspire positive change in their local community.

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Jennifer (narrator) 00:02

Carol, welcome to Beyond the band aids, with Project pact, hosted by Dr Carol Engel Enright, Kristin Daley and Chief Mike Butler, where we explore how police, public safety experts, city leaders and dedicated community members can work together to drive meaningful change.

Carol Engel-Enright 00:19
Well, welcome to be on the band aids. We are a project pack police and community together, a project that we’re working with with three nonprofits, new new blue leap, the law enforcement action partnership and so sis the school statesmanship, stewardship and service. And today I’m here with Kristin and Mike, and we’re going to tackle a big one today. We’re hearing a lot in the news about still, refund and defund the police, but today we’re going to talk about hiring and the profile of a packed, aligned police officer, a public safety officer. I like to use the public safety term, and I think we’re going to head right in, in turn, in in talking about, how do we find people who are going to enter the profession of policing and public safety and and what does that person look like? What is the profile? So I’m going to go first to Kristin, and then I’m going to move to Mike, and we’ll talk about his personal experiencing in entering the profession. So Kristin, what do you see as the profile?

Kristin Daley 01:33
I see a person who is focused on public service. I see a person with good communication skills a person who cares about community, I would say, I think that we need to start looking outside of the traditional means of recruiting for policing, and look to people who potentially have an interest in related fields, like communications, like social work, like areas that are connected in terms of service and, you know, getting out there into the community and helping people and that are already kind of affiliated with those, I hate to call them soft skills, but, you know, active listening and relating to people, and deescalation and all of those skills that would be very well suited to a career in policing. I also think the person needs to clearly be very civic minded. They need to be a good negotiator, a good compromiser, a person who genuinely wants to get out there every day and help people and make their communities safer and stronger.

Carol Engel-Enright 02:43
So I’m reminded of a time, a period of time in our history, where John F Kennedy said, you know, ask not what you can do for your country as or what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. And opened up the Peace Corps. And I just have to say in my educational experience that I met a lot of people who volunteered for a Peace Corps. They were heading into unknown territory. They were hoping to make a difference in the world. And I’m wondering if the new profile of a service minded public safety officer is this, this transformation, this, this, this change in our history of who this person is. And Mike, I want you to kind of to take this on, you know, talk about your own experience heading into public safety, becoming a, you know, a policeman on the street, a patrol officer, and working your way up. And what did it mean to have a community that you could start to relate to and work with?

Mike Butler 03:46
Sure, thanks. And I really listened closely to what Kristin had to say, and really enjoyed hearing those attributes and qualities, because all of those are important. But I also want to say, you know, the world’s getting more complex, and there’s hardly an industry or a profession that’s not requiring more of people that are entering it, and especially with policing. Policing is incredibly, remarkably minute by minute, very situational, and requires a versatility that is sometimes difficult to really describe the emotional, physical, mental capacities of people who are our police officers, I think are absolutely we need to kind of narrow those down. We need to really get good at understanding what we really need and want. But we also can’t put these kinds of attributes, qualities and characteristics, in a box and say, here they are, and this is everybody has to fit in that box, because that won’t work either. And so there is a kind of a shifting, transcending, kind of nature to the role of policing. And as I said before, it’s quite situational. Police officers are people who have to be physically capable of doing lots of things that are physical, including using force, including subduing people if necessary, including making arrests. And those things are necessary, we cannot minimize that role of policing because they’re the only ones in our community who we can legally do these kinds of things. And there are people in our community who who are willing to test those limits. We’re willing to kind of challenge police officers, and we see it quite often, whether it’s their use of force, anywhere from hands on to deadly force. All of those things are still there for police officers, but we also have to get into the mode that policing is changing. Policing is shifting. Policing needs to shift and transcend. And while those that ask those physical aspects and attributes are important, they’re not even close to being the only ones that police officers need in order to be effective. And with Project pact, we’re talking about authentic partnerships. We’re talking about kind of surfacing and activating the social capital in our communities. We’re talking about people who can work with anybody in the community. Itself is incredibly diverse. Any community is many cultures, many ethnicities, male, female, many perspectives are out there. And police officers need to have the capacity to be able to relate to any and all of those cultures, ethnicities, races, genders, and all the mixes of those things that we can begin to even possibly imagine. And I’m reminded of some people that I’ve known in my life as police officers, men and women, who have been incredibly effective as police officers, as a, as a as they did their career. They were incredibly approachable, incredibly resourceful. They always had this presence about them, that when you were with them, you were the only person with them. And that was it was incredibly remarkable to see these people. They had a resilience. They always had a smile. They could laugh easily. They were very approachable, by the way, and just really people who could, who could be in any kind of set of circumstances and felt at home and felt comfortable and so that, to me, that’s kind of a starting point in terms of that sense of confidence, that sense of deportment, that sense of being, that sense of presence. They were empathetic, they were emotionally intelligent. They worked well with in a collective environment. They didn’t have to be the hero. They didn’t need to be the lone cowboy or the lone wolf kind of personality. They loved working with other people. They loved relationships. They loved making friends. They loved getting to know people. They loved connecting and all. None of those things, by the way, to our listeners to our fellow police officers or police chiefs are listening to this. None of those things detract from an officer, a person’s capacity to do the things that Kristin said, that we need to do, in terms of being able to utilize force at appropriate times, being able to protect themselves, being able to keep themselves safe, and most their fellow police officers safe, and their and their citizen citizens safe. They they understood that it was almost kind of a second nature thing once they got the training and the skills to be able to do that. And in my own career, I’d like to think that I embodied some of that in terms of who I became when I became a police officer in Boulder, Colorado, back in the year of our Lord, 1978 i i had to I worked in an organization that was quite enforcement oriented and really didn’t have much of a vision or mission at that point. In terms of who they were, the community was outside of us, our police department was a faceless entity. It was very it was a lot of non personal things going on. I heard a lot of police officers talk about the community as almost the enemy, in terms of how they felt about the community, and that was understandable, because at that point in time, the only people that our police officer dealt with were those people who were committing crimes in our community. We didn’t have any any kind of orchestrated way within our organization to be able to say, how do we how do we expose ourselves to that the things are happening that are good in our community. And so we were either dealing with the trauma of a victim or trying to find an offender. And many times, people would say, you know, out of 10 hour days, and those are the 10 hour days we worked. You know, I get lie to nine hours out of that day. Well, how would one feel about humanity, if that’s if that was kind of the nature of their immersion, so to speak, into humanity and and so you. It was a way that, you know, we can move forward with that. We’ll talk about that in a future podcast. But, but my own self, I I chose to do something different. I chose to be approachable. I chose to be personable. I chose but at the same time, I had to watch myself. I had the cue. I had to keep in mind the cues in terms of what was unsafe or safe for me, I had to protect other people. I had to I had to make arrests. Sometimes I had to do all those things that police officers had to do when I was in, when I was a patrol officer, when I was in detectives, and so I had to do all those things in terms of enforcement. But on the other hand, I wanted to keep myself what I felt was a healthier way of being in terms of my own sense of how I saw people and I had but I came from another perspective too. I I really got into policing because I really wanted to make a difference in people’s lives. At one point, I worked for the FBI and and the FBI is kind of served. The person they served was the United States of America, and you never really got to know people, and you were only around other FBI people, and and, and so I wanted to get closer to the community I served. And for the right reasons, I wanted to get to know people. I wanted to kind of get a sense for who they were and what I could do to make a difference in their lives. And I got into the policing profession as a patrol officer when I was 25 and and, and I have to tell you, we’ll talk more later in the next in a future Pro, in a future podcast. I had three children at the time, and I was maybe a mature 25 year old, because I was no longer the center of my own universe. Children tends to kind of help you with that a little bit, but there’s other ways to bring that about. But children for me was my way of saying, Hey, I’m no longer the center of my own universe. So I had this sense of wanting to be of service, wanting to be community minded and and I really wanted to spread that to our entire organization, so I worked up. I worked my way up to the number two position, ultimately in Boulder, before I became the police and public safety chief at Longmont. But my whole career was that way, and I and so. But I’m also reminded, as I said before, about the presence of the people that I’ve known. I can attach names. There was a woman named Patty, another woman named Pat, man named Steve and Jeff and Doug. All reminded me, as I think about kind of these profiles that we want to see in our police profession, of people who were were that kind of, those kinds of folks. You know, there’s a lot the police departments can do to train police officers in terms of what the what the skill sets are around being safe and how to deescalate and how to make arrest and how to use force. Those are all skill sets that they get in the basic police academy. But there is also this sense of who people are as we get into the police profession that I think we have to kind of revisit as a profession. Sometimes we get lucky and we get the right people, and sometimes I wonder if some police departments are out there just we just want someone who can breathe and bathe on a regular basis. We just need to buy and so we have to be careful with that, because that’s what got us in trouble over the years, in terms of selecting people that maybe didn’t have those attributes, qualities and characteristics that we’re now talking about,

Carol Engel-Enright 13:35
right emotional maturity, a little bit of wisdom. I’m thinking back to the years I was on the university campus, and the number of students who would walk into my office and say, I want to have a job that makes a difference. I want to do something that helps people. Well, you know, policing is is helping somebody every day and actually helping a whole community. But we don’t have that, you know, maybe it’s the the uniform, maybe it’s the sense of military, some of the words that we use, maybe some of the traditions, you know, in in drawing that type of person to the profession and and what are you seeing, Kristin, as you look at the new research and what’s happening with new hires? And I have another question, big question for you guys, how does somebody who’s walking into a department know if that department has the same aligned values of wanting to be community minded, service oriented versus hard line enforcement, kind of boundaries between the department and the community, that’s, yeah,

Kristin Daley 14:52
those are both good questions. So first, I think a lot of people do get into policing because of the reason. That that Mike mentioned, they do want to serve their communities. They care about other people. They want to be of service. I think that in a lot of cases, they don’t necessarily have the support systems that they need within their agency and resilience is a big part of what kind of you know over the years can break a person down when they’re seeing difficult things on a day to day basis, and they don’t have that sort of internal resilience or external support system, it can start to wear you down, and you start to do your job in a way that’s that’s not the way that you set out to do it. Initially, you kind of lose that compassion for others. You lose that human connection a bit when you’re seeing these terrible things day in and day out, and having you know, as Mike said, having people lie to you day in and day out, and you start to kind of look at human nature and in a bit of a more cynical way. So I think a big part of that is the agency building in that support system for officers, creating support networks that can play a role in not only training them and getting them up to speed when they first come in, but offering them ongoing support throughout their careers. I think it’s a sense of belonging, like do the people in your agency feel like they’re truly part of a team. Do they feel invested in the work and involved in the decision making process? Are they looking for new ideas from new forward thinking officers or officers, regardless of their rank or their level of seniority? Are they creating new opportunities to you know, lead a particular project in your community, or they accepting of new ideas. I think all of those things are good signs when you’re coming into an agency. I also think a priority on officer wellness is is a big, big sign that an agency is, you know, creating that healthy environment for new officers. Are they breaking down that stigma around seeking mental health support? Are they making resources not only really available but accessible to their officers, and encouraging them to use those resources? I think all of those play into an officer’s well being, and they play into how an officer does their job externally with the community,

Carol Engel-Enright 17:22
okay? And Mike, how are you finding the right people as you got to the chief’s position and you were held, you know, leading your staff

Mike Butler 17:31
well? So I, we’re, we’re, we’re going to talk about this in a future broadcast podcast, but maybe we should just combine these in terms of how we move forward here. But on the other hand, you know it’s here’s how a police officer can kind of get a good perspective on a prospective police department he or she may be part of. And a number of police officers, people that we ended up hiring, did that. They did ride alongs with their police the police officers that were there, and they began asking a lot of questions, and they began to get a feel for how this police officer is responding to everything, and what’s the expectation that that police officer has in terms of what they do, the actual practices and procedures and the behavior and activities that they perform. Then they ask a lot of questions about, How, is, how? What? What is the nature of your organization? What’s What’s it look like? Are you? Is your voice count, your thoughts matter, and to what level are you satisfied being here? I mean, I’ve had a lot of people do that in terms of what to, what level are people satisfied in being here in this police department, in this particular Police Department, and what’s that look like for for you? And so police officers have done that. There’s also websites that police officers can go to and say, Okay, what’s their mission statement? What’s their vision statement, what’s their website look like? Is it just a run of the mill kind of boiler plate website, or are there a lot of things attached to that website that make it look like you know, they have a lot of programs here that are very community oriented, and they have a lot of photos that are have lots of citizens in them. They’re not just photos of SWAT teams or photos of licensed sirens or photos of the adrenaline fix that some people think you need as a police officer, whether it’s all the excitement. You know, we shifted our perspective from we didn’t necessarily want to hire people who had the spirit of adventure, even though the police officer, the police officer’s job, is an adventure. All of life is an adventure, if you want to kind of characterize it that way, but we wanted people who had that spirit of service, and we asked them very directly, and we made that very clear what that spirit of service looked like and what it felt like, and that this is not something where you’re going to come in and be a hero, necessarily. There’ll be opportunities for you to do that because of the nature of the work you. But for those people who want to be heroes or lone wolves or lone cowboys, or those people who just want adventure, license sirens or adrenaline fixes, don’t come to our department. That’s not who we are. And we made that very, very clear on the front end. And so part of what we made also clear was that your voice counted and your thoughts matter and and so we wanted to develop that kind of culture in which people got to choose accountability, and there was a sense of belonging. We worked with new police officers by providing mentors to new police officers. We not just field training officers, but there was they had their assigned mentor, and there were people who helped them along and helped them kind of figure out things that seemed a little bit abstract or maybe they were clueless to but these mentors were also people that we were care we carefully selected to make sure that they represented our organization in ways that our culture. We wanted our culture to be a culture of belonging that Kristin mentioned, we gave people that opportunity to say, hey, we want you to feel like this is your organization. We want you to own this organization, as we talked about in a previous podcast. We want to be partners with you, and you’re invited everything. You’re part of the decision making process. This is your organization to create. This is your organization to own. This is your organization to be, to make it what you want it to be. You can make your mark here in the way you want to make it. But we’re also a collective. We have 400 people in this organization, and everybody’s voice counts, everybody’s thoughts matter. That didn’t mean you got your own way. That all that meant was your voice counted. And somehow we had to, we had to develop skill sets as leaders to figure out how to harmonize all the contrasting perspectives about how to move forward and but that that got easier and easier, because our culture shifted from one that was very top down, very patriarchal, very and someone once told me yesterday, I didn’t know what you meant when you said patriarchy. Well, patriarchy is very much aligned with here’s one person who has who’s in charge, one person who makes all the decisions, one person who says, here’s how it’s going to be, and everybody else, you don’t get to ask what, when, where or how, and the why questions off the table, and and so and so. This versus a partnership arrangement where you had to figure out what, when, where and how, and the why question is the most important question you can ask, and so and so. So that’s a simple definition. Partnership means joint accountability. Means responsible for outcomes. It means you could say no, it means your your reservations in doubt, and you’re saying, Hey, I don’t want to do it that way. Count in terms of how we move forward. So again, another little rehash on the difference between patriarchy and partnership.

Carol Engel-Enright 23:02
I just want to clarify. Patriarchy can be it’s not just men, men in control. It could be a woman

Mike Butler 23:10
as well. Yeah, you call it matriarch, or you could just call it paternalism. Paternalism a parent,

Carol Engel-Enright 23:15
child relationship, parent, right? Yeah, in in an organization. So, so I’m thinking about, you know, the person out there might be listening to this podcast who says, I want to do something in community. I, I’m really interested in in in the social sciences, and how people relate to each other, and how we create. I, you know, I can tell you by working with the Gen Y and the Gen z’s, they all want to see the world get along better. Most everyone wants to see the world get along better. And they, they, they don’t quite know where they fit in. They, you know, they talk about different professions. So you brought up the idea of a ride along. Can you walk into any police department and ask to ride along with a patrol officer? Yes,

Mike Butler 24:07
just about every police department in America has a ride along program. Some are a little bit more bridged than others, but you know you could say, okay, I’d like to ride the afternoon shift. From our afternoons were from three to one, 3pm to 1am I would like to ride that entire shift, or I want to ride in with a midnight officer or a daytime officer. And so, you know. And then we made it clear in Longmont that everybody is all of our police officers had to welcome and invite their ride alongs, into their into their little homes, into their little offices, if you will, their cars. But yeah, the other thing I want to say about Gen Y and Gen Z and even others, I don’t want to minimize any generation in terms of how they think and what they feel, because there’s always exceptions to these rules or these characteristics. But I found that younger. Officers really wanted to be more innovative. Really wanted to know that, you know, we they weren’t, kind of, they weren’t going to be oppressed by policies and procedures, and that there was a there was room for them to kind of rethink things and to come up with their own ideas. I think Kristin mentioned it earlier, but that that sense of innovation, and by the way, I made a comment yesterday to someone we were talking to, that innovation now comes in the form of working with the collective. It’s not just your idea in isolation, but how can you make your idea work with many other people in terms of bringing their ideas into the mix and creating a larger idea that that accounts for all the individual ideas that are part of that collective idea. So that’s a skill set that chiefs have to learn, that managers have to learn, that people have to learn, in terms of how you work with others, be in that collective is going to be the new way that things get done, whether you’re a police department, whether you’re a police department whether you’re a police department working in a community, many police departments kind of isolate themselves from other city departments that the other the other city departments are very much part of that collective, other nonprofits, the school district, all those partnership kinds of things we talked about, all those sense you have to be able in the future, police officers are going to have to realize that they are part of a collective. They may come up with the idea, so to speak, but they’re going to have to figure out how to make it work with many other perspectives.

Carol Engel-Enright 26:32
So I also want to go into this concept of adaptability, people that can adjust to an ever changing environment or situation and, and what happens, you know, how, how does, how? That certainly would keep the work from any kind of a routine, right? I mean, still going through your your daily things, but then a call comes and, and what is the profile of the person who has good adaptability in terms of walking into an unknown situation, possibly a dangerous situation, maybe Some unknown weapons and and how, how do you get from this community mindedness to being able to adapt and talk about some of the skills around that? Well, part

Mike Butler 27:31
of that is something we hire for. We have to understand, you have to understand, there are certain people, given their makeup, we found that just to have a difficulty kind of moving from one environment that is, let’s say there’s a meeting environment, people are having kinds of conversations around how you move forward, trying to figure out a new idea, or how you go from point A to point Z, and then there’s a whole new kind of of of skills or instincts or a sense of who you are, in terms of having, you know, seeing red flags, seeing things that look that don’t look right, seeing things that are potentially dangerous, some of that can be taught, some of that is experience too. By the way, I didn’t see that when I walked into the room, but now I see what you’re talking about. It depends on the age of the person that you’re hiring to, and it depends on sometimes their experiences. Did they come from another organization, at a police department? Did they have those skills? They have that kind of, that kind of wit, the kind of street wise way of seeing the world, already working for them and so but that street wisdom, so to speak, is something that there is an instinctual aspect to that. There is a sense of being able to make those shifts in your own head without going overboard, without going from to extremes, in terms of being kind of balanced in your perspective, keeping safety for you others, other police officers, in alignment with I have to collect information. I’m here. I’m here to provide a service. I’m here to perform an assignment in terms of what would make, what can make a difference in a community. All those are balancing things that people get good at as they kind of get experience. And I also want to say and back up a little bit that we tended we really looked for people who were kind of lifelong learners. We didn’t want somebody who was already in a box and wanted to stay in that box and were kind of, they were going to dig in and say, Don’t give me anything new in my life, because I’m just gonna, I’ll fold like a cheap card table if you do. And so we wanted lifelong learners. People had a willingness to learn, and education was one of those things that we looked at in terms of, were you, Were you willing to learn through maybe a four. Educational process. It wasn’t just life experience, learning, important, important. I don’t want to minimize that, but there was also extra things you did in your life experience where you went and maybe found out new things that you didn’t know before. Because you’re curious, you’re you have this sense of being curious around the world, around people, around circumstances, around science, maybe in philosophy, maybe psychology, or whatever and so and so that that had to be in our our profile that wasn’t our profile, the people we hired. Because this profession is one where constant learning and a constant sense of knowing, having to know new things, whether it’s technology, whether it’s new laws, whether it’s new ways of of how to procedures and practices work were all part of how the job was working. And you ask anybody who’s been a police officer for five years or 10 years, they’ll tell you that it’s radically different than it was when they started. And so you have to be able to keep up with that. But again, as I started off, every profession is like that. The world is changing at a much faster pace, and so but police officers, these life or death circumstances, these, this anomalous job where you’re working in a country where the rights of individuals are paramount, and here comes a police officer who can use force, who can take people’s freedom away, who can do those kinds of has that kind of authority and power. It’s definitely an anomaly in our society. And so how do you balance all of these things in your own head and your own spirit, your own in your own heart, in terms of service and so and then you walk into these circumstances where danger is the red flag. And now, what do you do to protect yourself, to protect citizens, to protect your fellow officers? Are things that you need to be able to do extremely well. And what got police departments in trouble since for a long time has been this lack of ability or this lack of culture, maybe that supported this sense of being in more balance in terms of how you use force and what kind of person you hired who could potentially use force. There were a lot of police departments sued over negligent hiring or negligent retention in terms of keeping the people that they should they should know that shouldn’t be police officers, or hiring people because they were just finding a body. And so those the negligent hiring, the negligent retention and the negligent supervision haven’t left. There’s a lot of police departments and individuals within policing, they get sued for those very same reasons today and so, and it’s not that we’re trying to avoid lawsuits. The last reason in the world I think we should be making changes is because of liability issues. Yeah,

Carol Engel-Enright 32:54
a future podcast maybe around review review boards and how citizens relate to that Kristin, what do you think about adaptability in terms of the profile of a new officer or somebody coming into the profession that might be aligned with the what with the very philosophy of what we’re doing in Project pact?

Kristin Daley 33:15
I think it’s a balance. I think we are clearly looking for people who are able to make quick decisions, who are critical thinkers and who have the confidence to make those decisions. We also want people who are open, who are listeners and who are able to adapt to any situation and create that human connection. So you want to find a person who is not so inflexible and self focused, but you don’t want someone who’s going to panic or spin out at having to make a quick decision. Yeah,

Carol Engel-Enright 33:53
and I think it’s very interesting as you hear things on the news or you want even watching police shows, how, how we get this understanding of what the work really is. I would encourage you to, I want

Mike Butler 34:08
to say, I want to say, one of the worst things that’s ever happened in policing profession is the Hollywood version of police officers. Seriously, seriously there. There’s very little reality associated with, with what’s happening, between what Hollywood produces and what the real role of a police officer,

Carol Engel-Enright 34:26
or any of the shoot them up movies and and, yeah, as as we look at that. But if you, if you want to know what the what the real um, kind of service minded culture might look like, I would encourage you to read walk the walk. We had Neil Gross, who wrote the book, traveled around the country and and was looking for that culture redefining the culture of policing and public safety. And so we’re going to wrap it up. I’m just and also on on our project pack website, project pack.org we have say. D in your hands, written by Mike And Peter Black and just some other blogs of talking about this kind of, this new way, this new perspective, this new view of and of course, Kristin’s working with it in several police departments with new blue and innovative officers and and and department chiefs and deputy chiefs that are moving forward into being able to bring this equilibrium and balance and just really quick around last words on on that profile, most important skill,

Kristin Daley 35:38
I would say, willingness to learn and curiosity about other human beings.

Mike Butler 35:46
And one of the things we also looked for were people who saw the goodness in others. They didn’t see everyone as the enemy. They didn’t see their necessarily, their deficiencies or what’s wrong with this person or this person needs to be fixed, but they had this overriding kind of thinking that, you know, they made a mistake, but there’s still a lot of good going on in that person, which opens, which opens up other possibilities of how we move forward and how, what, what we can do in terms of tools, and what tools we can introduce, or what practices we can Introduce outside of the criminal justice system. So,

Carol Engel-Enright 36:22
and I’m going to come from the academic research side, that there is a movement if you’re curious or you’re on Discovery, that that leads to relationship and leads to empathy and compassion and emotional intelligence, if you’re suspicious or intolerant, that leads to hostility and so, so thinking about how we bring those and I know we call them soft skills, but I’ve worked for 2030, years in professional kind of training. Things was we bring that kind of training into the possibility of working with all the other training that goes on, the technical training, the adaptive training, the challenges that we have a real, good platform to help people into the profession, to help them develop the skills for the profession and to take leadership in the profession and create this beautiful environment and culture. So thank you for joining beyond the band aids today as we think about hiring for the future and the profile of a packed aligned new patrol officer or somebody who’s been in the profession for 20 years that’s ready to take it to the next level. Thank you for tuning in.

Jennifer (narrator) 37:40
Thank you for tuning in to beyond the band aids with Project pact. We hope today’s episode has inspired you to think differently about public service and community engagement. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate and leave a review. Your support helps us reach more listeners and continue bringing you valuable insights and stories. For more information and to stay connected, visit our website@projectpact.org and follow us on social media. We’d love to hear your thoughts and ideas, so feel free to reach out. Pioneered by law enforcement action partnership new blue and the School of statesmanship, stewardship and service. Project pact is the culmination of three leading organizations committed to enhancing community well being and policing integrity. Until next time, keep moving forward and stay engaged together, we can create a safer, more connected future. You.